British students jailed for terrorism plans

galleyarcherySoftware and s/w Development

Oct 29, 2013 (3 years and 5 months ago)

43 views

British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
1 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
RSS
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
2 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
It is the first time the Crown Prosecution Service has secured a conviction for possessing material useful for terrorism under the Terrorism Act 2000.Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of the Metropolitan Police counter terrorism command, said: "This was not an adolescent fantasy. These five young men had decided to become active jihadists and to seek training at camps in Pakistan or Afghanistan."Iqbal and Zafar, both from Rochdale, Lancs, shared a student house in Bradford, where Iqbal studied science with Malik, from Wolverhampton, West Midlands. Also among the gang was Butt, a fellow student from Southall, west London. All were followers of Abdullah Azzam, the originator of the Afghan jihad, who was killed in 1989.Police were called in by Raja's distraught parents who eventually persuaded him to return home.Examining the young men's computers revealed MSN chatroom conversations justifying suicide bombings and talking of the need for terrorist training and cover stories when travelling overseas.Also found were extracts from an al-Qa'eda training manual, including a list of the most popular types of explosive and diagrams of triggering devices. Other documents discovered included a "military guide to terrorism in the 21st century".Fellow students said the gang had tried to take over a meeting of the university Islamic society and had scribbled the word "jihad" in chalk on the wall of their student house.

Have your say

Post this story to:
del.icio.us
|
Digg
|
Newsvine
|
NowPublic
|
Reddit
Related articles
July 7 bomber's wife miscarried on eve of attacksNew NHS doctors employed without security checks26 July 2007: Schoolboy jailed for terror offences25 July 2007: Schoolboy guilty of terrorism offences
Comments
I think you have a very deluded idea of islam and have mixed it with catholosism. as muslimswe do not believe we need to refer to a priest or infact have to ask a priest to be a go between us and god. so if you could get at least some of your facts correct i would be more likely to takeon board your point of view. i live and work in the uk because i enjoyed being here.Unfortunately due to present circumstances i have now begun to feel the menace ofuneducated individuals who form their opinions on hearsay and the tabloid press. I believe thatbritain was great because it adopted many of the ideals of what true islam speaks of. Integrity,honesty, human rights, family values, just amd tolerant to all individuals no matter who they are. The british empire has crumbled like many others due to its failure to stick to its corevalues. your right i will probably be forced to move out of the uk like many bosnians were out of the former yugoslavia. But i pray that it doesnt come to that. One point you failed to answer is what does it take to be british? or am i still a pig born in a stable as it has been so kindly put?Posted by Rehana on July 27, 2007 10:41 PM
Report this comment
I am very pleased to observe the sensible tone of most of the postings on this board today, perhaps there is some long term hope for the survival of the Britain I grew up in after all. You should all be voting for the BNP of course. You have been abandoned by all the other parties.Posted by Roger Cole on July 27, 2007 9:33 PM
Report this comment
No, Rehana, British culture is the post-Enlightenment belief that individual human beings have inalienable natural rights of which their governance cannot deprive them. Islamic culture, on the other hand, is the pre-modernist belief that individual human beings have only such rights as a few old men claiming a direct governance commission from a supernatural diety are willing to grant them. British culture is self governance. Islamic culture is priest governance. British culture is freedom and tolerance. Islamic culture is bondage and bigotry. British culture is the rule of law. Islamic culture is the rule of priest. British culture is the freedom to think, speak, act, and worship as one pleases as long as this does not alienate the natural rights of others.
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
3 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
Islamic culture is the alienation of all natural rights of everyone inconsistent with how priests will them to think, speak, act, and worship. Muslims who cannot accept and honor these aspects of British culture might better return to Islamic cultures which willingly abjure them. Islamic reformation is the only hope for peaceful Islamic and Western co-existance. This may with Islam, as it was with Christianity, be the work of centuries. But it should perhaps be the work of moderate Muslims everywhere who desire to live in Western cultures. Posted by Michael Grable on July 27, 2007 7:38 PM
Report this comment
Reading all these comments tells me as a british born muslim i must only be here to collect the benefits and in fact am not british at all.. So we should integrate into british culture..hmm letme think what that is? one-night stands? binge drinking? no respect for elders? lack of education? having teenage pregnancies? well if thats british culture fine i dont want to integrate.. but like the majority of muslims who live in this country we pay our taxes work hard and respect our families and those around us. So according to those people who have writtenthat just being born in britain does not make you british.. so would someone please tell me what does? being white? on the dole? read the sun? and where would you like to deport these people? Australia? kick some more of the Aboriginies out and create a colony there or would you like to send them to guantanomo.. which is highlighting the way britain and america value the law...Posted by rehana on July 27, 2007 6:27 PM
Report this comment
An "expert" from Chatham House was on BBC Radio yesterday, arguing that these convicted terrorists should be freed. The programme also gave airtime to one of the five men. People who seek to subvert British law and culture and impose an alien system of control by violence - in this case sharia law by jihad, should not be called immigrants, they should be called colonialists. I have spent my life as a liberal activist but I have come to realise that much of the liberal left are enthusiastically colluding in the subversion of our society to a sharia state. I have walked away in disgust and anger from many of the institutions and networks I was once part of. These men are not "British" in any meaningful sense of the concept. They are part of a mass movement that wishes to colonise Britain along with the rest of the world. We should resist colonialists. Posted by Dan on July 27, 2007 4:40 PM
Report this comment
What drives young males to do stupid, dangerous things? 1) Testosterone. 2) Peer pressure. 3) Chips on shoulders. That's about it, really. What's to be done in this case? Well, preventing certain influences, such as radical Fundamentalist Imams from having access to them during their most vulnerable period might help, but since the advent of the Internet this is somewhat more difficult.Posted by David Walker on July 27, 2007 4:12 PM
Report this comment
On your front page, you have a link to this comment page saying "why do Britons turn on their own?" They are not, and are not our own. They are just people who the government has given British passports to - quite wrongly. We must stop devaluing the currency of our citizenship.Posted by David Webb on July 27, 2007 3:33 PM
Report this comment
Fundamentalist Islam is profoundly theocentric, xenophobic, and evangelical. Non-Muslims are, as a matter of faith, Islam's enemies; and a holy war against them is every faithful Muslim's duty. No faithful Muslim is "British"; and British institutions have value to fundamentalist Islam only as the breach of unbeliever walls though which the faithful may pour. If you cannot recognize this, it is only because fundamentalist Islam is an atavistic theonomy from which the reformation of your own religion has long since emancipated you. Posted by Michael Grable on July 27, 2007 3:17 PM
Report this comment
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
4 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
In response to Michael Steiner 08:38 - Most of these radicals are not from underpriveleged backgrounds, they go to TB's city acadamies and have all the priveleges denied most of the indigenous population, jumping housing queues etc. And as for having nothing to live for, one of the London bombers had a wife and child Posted by burly shorn, France on July 27, 2007 2:48 PM
Report this comment
A pig born is a stable is not a horse. So these creatures are not British.Posted by Daniel K888 on July 27, 2007 2:11 PM
Report this comment
I do not consider these boys as British, since it is clear that they are far from having adopted Britain's values and culture. As long as Islam is Britain is not watched more closely and as long as immigration from muslims countries is not limited and/or screened, such problems will persists. And by the way how can these boys or even white Britons can be pround to be British when our history is not taught at school ...Posted by
Florian Bay
on July 27, 2007 1:52 PM
Report this comment
Dear Mr Steiner, Judging by the replies already made about your comments, I think you are deluding yourself. Who is responsible for all this inner city decay? For the disadvantaged "working classes?" In their lack of direction and purpose? It's the same as blaming Thatcher "for closing down the factories" as if she strutted about the country ordering this and that factory or mine to close. It's the sort of thing that might go in the the sort of society some peoplke might want to create. In a free market democracy isn't it partly the responsibility of the individual to saise themselves out of the gutter? Or are we all bored, waiting for some enlightened politician like Blair to wave a magic wand and lead us like some latter-day Moses? Let's not make excuses for these individuals. They wallow in their own filth and should not blame anyone else, because they have failed to take opportunities a country, to which they have shown so much contempt, has offered. If they hate it here so much, they don't have to stay. And we should not be expected to put up with them. Still less let them bomb us.Posted by Addie Nough on July 27, 2007 1:52 PM
Report this comment
These people are not british and they never will be. They may not have tried to hard to integrate into british society, but even if they had they would have very likely been unsuccessful. As someone who lives in a foreign country, believe me it is very very difficult to integrate even once the language barrier is overcome ..... I for one will always be seen as a foreigner, and there is absolutely nothing I can do to change that. Human nature, culture, prejudices and all other issues, will never be overcome by the present generations.Posted by der on July 27, 2007 12:20 PM
Report this comment
The immediate political class are the real menace, revolutionary politics is the answer,the purging of PC liberalism it will turn into rabid nationalism. read Rudyard Kipling's poem "When the English Begin to Hate", it is coming. Posted by E Pryor on July 27, 2007 12:09 PM
Report this comment
Maybe it’s because of the perpetual hogwash from our politically controlled judiciary. Lawdepends on fundamental principles not political slogans. It is because we have stopped doingLaw that we now find ourselves in such a mess. We harp on about law, then we breakinternational law and invade and murder 100,000s people. I somehow didn't see this referredto in the judgment, and then we harp on about free speech whilst introducing laws to makeillegal anything that we don't wish to hear. We as a nation have become lawless; we are fallingfrom the high ground we once held. Only the HL as a last bastion is providing some glimmer ofhope. We are descending in to a tribal lawless country ourselves, both internally with politicallymotivated ASBOS (a relic of soviet times) and externally by breaking international law tosecure oil benefits and regime change. If we conduct ourselves like this, which equates to a tribal culture. Don't be surprised if everyone else reverts to the same level as well. We are dismantling Britain piece by piece. If we continue then any arguments over Brutishness will indeed be moot.
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
5 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
Bring back Britain, we miss you! Posted by Count Cash on July 27, 2007 12:04 PM
Report this comment
These people are about as British as the Man in the Moon. Bin their benefits, and if they don't integrate and contribute to society, bin them. End of problem.Posted by Jakinthblak on July 27, 2007 12:02 PM
Report this comment
Dear Mr Steiner, I read your missive with interest, I would like to add some thoughts of my own; “Racism from the likes of "Mr. Barnett" does not help.” No racism there, though it is a convenient trope to reach for in a struggle to smear youropponent with an ad hominem attack. It’s just common sense not to add to the problemalready extant i.e. Islamic population of x million will yield x terrorists, increasing saidpopulation through immigration will merely add to the problem. “The breakdown of society and inner-city ghettos, which almost guarantees that bored youngmen will become part of "gangs" is an issue.” Sigh, this idea has been disproved multiple times by the type of person involved – these rangefrom teaching assistants to doctors and include other professionals as well, so I’m afraid thatthis idea does not hold water, it is on a par with an urban myth. “Young people are impressionable, and when mosques are allowed to have churn out whatevernonsense they want with impunity, bored people lacking perspectives on life are a very fertileground.” I agree with the sentiment re prosecuting (and deporting or jailing) “preachers of hate”,however you have again made the error of assuming they are bored (to whit the would bejihadi Dr’s) or that they lack education (your next point). “A general lack of education means that these kids really think that e.g. Israel is out tovanquish Islam or the U.S. wishes to kill as many Muslims as it can.” It has nothing to do with their education, but it has everything to do with the ideologyespoused by the salfists and wahbi strains of the Islam meme. This basically consists ofdominating first the “Muslim world” then everywhere else (via re-conquering Spain and Indiafirst, as these are the ‘lost lands’) “I guess they feel they have nothing terribly worthwhile to live for so they seek death or atleast don't overly mind if they meet death.” Again I would respectfully disagree with the above supposition, it is all down the ideology espoused. Whilst some of those captured by the lies of the Islamist supremacists are no doubt dupes, a great many are highly educated, intelligent people and have carefully thought about the ideology presented to them by the Islamists and agree with it. The individuals caught promoting salfist jihadi ideology, planning or executing terrorist attacks in the name of jihad, providing aid and comfort to salfist ideology and jihadis (financial, safe housing, quartermasters) should all be charged with treason and upon conviction sentenced to a minimum of 25 years in jail. As for the question posed, these individuals do not see themselves as British (anymore thanthey see themselves as American or Egyptian), but rather as part of some salfist Umma, even though most Muslims are in a state jahiliyyah and are thus liable to the doctrine of takfir. They should be tried as traitors and placed in jail for the minimum term I suggest above. Oh Mr Cayce would best be advised not to berate anyone with respect to their education, as his spelling of enquiry leaves him open to all sorts of ridicule.Posted by Malcolm Smith, London, UK on July 27, 2007 11:50 AM
Report this comment
Do the authorities expect us to feel relieved that people convicted on plotting terror have been sent to prison, when we read (or google) this: "The presence of a large number of terrorists in UK jails has virtually turned them into centres of jihadi madrassas, with hardened terrorists poaching young angry Muslims and turning them into radicals. " or this: "Steve Gough, vice-chairman of the Prison Officers Association (POA), expressed concern over this and said, 'The radicalisation of young men is going to be our biggest problem over the next four or five years. If you look at the trials coming up we are possibly going to have
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
6 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
hundreds more entering the prison system.' " What happens when they come out?Posted by Jonathan Dear on July 27, 2007 11:38 AM
Report this comment
All this shows is that the multculturism experiment does not work.Mr Steiners comments are a prime example of the apologist culture that encourages these anti freedom muslim extremeists.Posted by colin on July 27, 2007 11:31 AM
Report this comment
Why do British born men turn against their countrymen? These people are not 'countrymen',they might say they’re 'British', because they are people who are given rights of residence, orBritish citizenship and that piece of confetti called a British passport, or were born here toforeign parents whos roots, culture and alien way of life these offspring invariably adopt. Well,all I can say is, they're not - they are what their religion, roots, DNA and culture say they are,they are first and foremost Muslims – Islamists - who hate western style democracy. What dothey say . . . if your born or live in a stable it doesn't mean your a donkey. Isn't it funny, tothem, this country is so bad, yet they take advantage of our free and tolerant way of life whichseems to be so abhorent to them and use that freedom to plot to kill and maim us, ordemonstrate against our evil ways. Why do we tolerate these stupid idiots preaching hate andviolence in our country, against citizens in this country. The whole ethos of this vicous, hatefilled and intollerant religion is that Islam will take over and rule the world.. Christians are theirsworn enemy. They will never change, or rest, until they achieve their goal, by whatevermeans it takes. That is their goal, yet, even knowing this, this stupid Christian country of oursstill allow them to live and operate amongst us. This is what you get if you invite vipers intoyour home, they will bite youPosted by Lynda Plum on July 27, 2007 11:20 AM
Report this comment
these people should be put down, not locked up for 23 months!! treason against one's own country is one of the worse crimes, and should be punished much harder! now that would set the example!Posted by david on July 27, 2007 11:15 AM
Report this comment
They are NOT Britons. They never were Britons and never will be. They've been allowed to fester in ghettos clinging on to their own culture and customs, treating their women like dogs and goats to be bartered in arranged marraiges, which let their bigotry become more extreme. They do not respect this country, or its traditions, they scorn our values of freedom and tolerance while taking full advantage of these to undermine and try to destroy them. But these are not the true criminals. What about trendy socialists, peddling their obscene version of "diversity," in council offices, in quangos, in government, whose social experimenting has caused so much racial conflict and disunity? Shouldn't they be held responsible for the problems they have caused and are still causing? They are not misguided do-gooders. They are as criminal as the people they allowed to perpetrate acts of terrorrism. Of course we should not prevent people from coming here to live. Britain has done that throughout its history. Our culture has been enriched by the contribution of others. But now our culture and values are being destroyed by these socio-fascists and their tampering. Terrible those these acts of terrorisms are, they are just a tip of an iceberg of a rotteness that's gone unnoticed for too long. Starting with Blair and tens years of weak leadership. Forget the EU. Forget Dunkirk and Rule Britannia. To find the real problems we only need to look under our own floorboards.Posted by Addie Nough on July 27, 2007 11:15 AM
Report this comment
I don't consider these people to be my countrymen and never will. For their part, they haveshown that they do not consider the indigenous people of Britain to be their countrymen (which, of course, they are not). Some immigration was fine, but the level of it now -particularly from countries whose cultures are alien to our own - is truly frightening. When willthe government wake up to the fact that this country is being Balkanised and do something about it - like stopping immigration from countries whose cultures are so vastly different from our own?
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
7 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
Posted by Marianne on July 27, 2007 11:03 AM
Report this comment
Michael Steiner on July 27, 2007 8:38 AM What a load of drivel! Have you never heard of UMMA (or UMA)??? In modern arabic it can betranslated with "Islamic Nation". This is the first loyalty that a Muslim has, no matter where helives, or was born, or what his passport is! These people are not, and never will be British - asone late comedian said "just because a dog is born in a stable does not make it a horse"! How right. It is about time that Britons (ethnic ones) learned more about Islam, and then perhapsthey would not go on preaching about these "poor uneducated people living in ghettos". Islam is only concerned with missionary work, and hence with subjugating the rest of the infidel world. That is what Jihad is! After their prison sentence, these people should be stripped ofBritish citizenship and sent back to their country of origin, surely they are nothing other than traitors?Posted by chrissie on July 27, 2007 10:58 AM
Report this comment
These Muslims are British when collecting benefits and free housing and all the other freebies. ### If a kitten was born in a kipper box, would it be a kipper ? or a kitten ### This is yourMuslims.Posted by James on July 27, 2007 10:34 AM
Report this comment
These people are not our "countrymen". To call them "British" is a dangerous travesty, and to assume that mere birthplace and papers are decisive factors, while ignoring ethnicity, culture and religion is frighteningly naive. Immigration must be not only stopped but reversed.Posted by Stu G on July 27, 2007 10:33 AM
Report this comment
These people are not 'my own'. They have nothing in common with me, my family or friends. They have no wish to share British culture, and disrespect much of it. (I can understand their contempt for some of our current culture, and our schools do not teach any respect for things British. Ed Balls is currently introducing changes that will further encourage their contempt for British history. If the Labour party is ashamed to be British, why should Muslim teenagers be proud of our heritage?). Potential Muslim terrorists like these also have a belligerent attitude to those who do not share their interpretation of the Muslim religion. This dislike extends to other Muslims who have less hostility toward the West. The politically correct approach to politics, fostered by the Race Relations Acts, has ensuredthat warnings have been ignored for decades by politicians of all parties. (These warningsinclude that from Ray Honeyford, the Bradford headmaster who predicted in the early 1980sthat 'multiculturalism' would fail, and was promptly forced to retire early.) Politicians continueto ignore the issue, and for the most part the British people let them get away with it. Blair’sonly action was to tell Muslims that they should integrate more. Gordon Brown does not like touse Muslim and terrorist in the same sentence. Massive immigration encouraged by the Labourparty in the last ten years has only made the situation worse. But still Brown leads in the polls,partly because the Conservatives are too scared to address difficult issues. Politicians hope thatthe Courts and the security services will deal with the problem of alienation in our society,which is beginning to resemble Bosnia and the Lebanon. What can ordinary people do? Unfortunately emigration appears to be the only answer, because there is no solution proposed by any of our current politicians. Posted by Tony G on July 27, 2007 10:32 AM
Report this comment
It is clear that over the last few decades, British passports have been handed out to millions of people who should never been given them in the first place. It is now imperative that ALL 3rd world immigrants in the UK, no matter what generation they are, are screened and those deemed undesirable must be deported.Posted by Simon Holly on July 27, 2007 10:06 AM
Report this comment
Simply because they are not Britons! Does it have to be spelt out?Posted by Ben on July 27, 2007 10:02 AM
Report this comment
Michael steiner 8.38 If these muslims who in your opinion have every right to be here hate Britain so much.Why dont they leave for a sharia state?Easy to answer, they would not get state handouts.If they are entitled to be here,surely they are guilty of treason and should receive the death penalty.The victims of racism are the majority of the population who these cretins want to blow up.Apologists for these people really deserve to be their next victim. Posted by NOAHS KAYAK on July 27, 2007 9:50 AM
Report this comment
These sentences are derisory. The British are not serious about terrorism.Posted by andrew cramb on July 27, 2007 9:47 AM
Report this comment
Most people do not realise that, with the example of the warlord founder of Islam, Muhammad, and his call to make all the world islamic, that Moslems have an almost 1400 year unbroken history of wars and atrocities against Middle Easterners, Africans, Asians, Europeans and Americans. Europeans, especially, know that only warfare in the past was able to free them from Islamic totalitarianism. Winston Churchill is no longer to be taught in English schools because he and many other great men of history recognised and spoke of Islam's evil reality, and these lines are his warning to the English people he loved and served: "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
8 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
when your victory is sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may evenbe a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better toperish than to live as a slave." Posted by Clarion on July 27, 2007 9:40 AM
Report this comment
These men are 'British', whatever we think of them. Perhaps the problem is that we don't have an expulsion policy - a reverse of the immigration process. Posted by Weng on July 27, 2007 9:36 AM
Report this comment
these would be killers are beneath contempt if only the the government acted upon the wishesof the people and DEPORTED them back to the places they BELONG there are no doubt other believers of this radical fundamental nonsense funded by us the taxpayer waiting to strike. its too late now immigration into this country is firmly to blame and the liberal do gooders lawers politicians are responsiblle for the whole sorry mess.Posted by anthony jones on July 27, 2007 9:32 AM
Report this comment
Why do British born men turn agains thir own? The clue is in the question; born in Britain butconsider themselves Muslim first.Posted by lee ronstad on July 27, 2007 9:17 AM
Report this comment
Our newspapers are full to bursting with pictures and articles on terrorists - so are our jails. Wewaste money on social and medical welfare for jihadists and their families in this country. Costsmount up for surveillance, arrest, prosecution and imprisonment for terrorists, wasting money hand over fist on people who do not deserve to live in our country. Why, oh why, do we continue do it? Send them back to the country they are fighting for, wherever that is.Posted by Annie on July 27, 2007 9:04 AM
Report this comment
when will you poms get it,the only thing that drives these Muslims is the Koran no matter where they were born Islam can not exist with out the violence and brain washing Posted by t,k on July 27, 2007 8:55 AM
Report this comment
They are not British, Britians would not want to harm large numbers of other Britians. They may have pretended to be British all their lives so that they could try to harm us, fact is, their nationality is not British, it's a misconception, simple really.Posted by Ben Rice on July 27, 2007 8:54 AM
Report this comment
"Mr. Barnett" (0645 hrs.) evidently has reading comprehension problems. The question is notone of "letting these people in"; these are people born and raised in Britain. And anyway, boththey and their original compatriots have every right to be in Britain. As to why they turn against "their own," there is a multiplicity of factors. o Racism from the likes of "Mr. Barnett" does not help. o The breakdown of society and inner-city ghettos, which almost guarantees that bored young men will become part of "gangs" is an issue. o Young people are impressionable, and when mosques are allowed to have churn out whatever nonsense they want with impunity, bored people lacking perspectives on life are a very fertile ground. o A general lack of education means that these kids really think that e.g. Israel is out to vanquish Islam or the U.S. wishes to kill as many Muslims as it can. o I guess they feel they have nothing terribly worthwhile to live for so they seek death or at least don't overly mind if they meet death. Just a few thoughts...Posted by
Michael Steiner
on July 27, 2007 8:38 AM
Report this comment
Been to Rochdale recently anyone? There's a road through the town they call the Khyber pass. i don't suppose most people in Rochdale even know that the Kyber pass is the link between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Misinformed poor humour or just another bigotted view point? Oldham riots, very close to Rochdale were only a few years ago. Cause? was it race releated or simply socially affected by the lack of prospects for the youths in the town. If you are born and bred in East Lancashire, then you are brought up in the traditional lifestyle of the area. The accent is so disctinct, you can pin point a person from the area to within a few miles of their birth. This isn't about accents, or skin colour, it's about what is going on in their minds. Win that battle and you win any war. As for the immigration policy.... the ancestors of the UK are a mixture of Scandanavian, French and German and possibly these days a few more
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
9 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
Polish. Ask the question of these people, why do they hate? The President of Pakistan recently pardoned a terrorist bomber, stating he was coeered into the lifestyle. We are on the verge of pure fear, and paranoia. Ps. look at history on invasions by the Brits in Afghanistan. It's not good. Posted by ian on July 27, 2007 8:19 AM
Report this comment
Very important that questions like this are asked. It opens the debate we were promised and when it eventually happens the real truths will emerge. These people are Islamic first. To them, their 'Britishness' is irrelevant. It is up to this country, and any country to identify how important their nation is to them, and set the standards firm and square. The hypocrisy is astounding. We live in a society that allows equal opportunities to all. Islam does not - Women are inferior to men. The religion is therefore, by its very nature, opposed to our simplest ideals. Building 'super' mosques is not the way forward. Knocking them down is.Posted by Paul Case on July 27, 2007 8:08 AM
Report this comment
Clearly your correspondents have a good understanding of the problem. These people are not British. It doesn't matter that they were born in England and hold British passports they are aliens from an alien culture and can never be fully assimilated. They can and never will be British and the sooner we realise this truth and discriminate ( in a polite and reasonable way ) against them the better for everyone.Posted by David Hawk on July 27, 2007 7:59 AM
Report this comment
The day the goverment accedes to demands for a public enquirey into the events surrounding the London bombings, is the day they'll regain their credibility. Personally I think something very dodgy is going on. The biggest crime on mainland Britain and not one whiff of an enquirey. What's the government trying to protect, their own roll in these so-called terrorist attacks. Its easy to see that most Telegraph readers are not very educated and so they revert to the 'Bernard Manning' school of race relations, but for those with half a brain, give us an enquirey or give us a break.Posted by Eddie Cayce on July 27, 2007 7:59 AM
Report this comment
These people must serve their FULL sentance, and then they must be deported to their Country of origin.see how they like it there without all the handouts this stupid country give them..Posted by Barrie Nelson on July 27, 2007 7:52 AM
Report this comment
Because they don't see themselves as British or even Human they consider themselves as the devine hands of Allah. Hey, who can argue with someone on a devine mission?Posted by Kerry O Donoghue on July 27, 2007 7:43 AM
Report this comment
This is a much needed conviction,the sentences are not long enough. These evil people need to be taught that what they are doing is not some game and will not be tolerated. After serving their sentence they should be deported if possible to one of the countries they " love " so much.Posted by James on July 27, 2007 7:25 AM
Report this comment
“Why do British-born men turn against their countrymen?” is an interesting question The question itself needs the addition of women along with men or men/women. Till now women with burqa have not joined the Islamic jihad in UK. So we are focusing only on men! Another common factor is one can replace any secular democratic nation’s name instead ofBritain! The democracy and its associated principles and practices and secularism are primarily later day (after 1000 AD) British concepts. These have been modified to different degrees in different democratic nations such as US, European nations, UK, many commonwealth nations such as India. A large number of Muslims have pan-Islamic loyalties. For them loyalty to Islam is first and the nation, where they live enjoy the fruits, comes down somewhere in the list of priorities. So Islamic cause or perceived injustice to Muslims appeals to them passionately and in many cases provoke them to indulge in fifth-columnist activities including waging subversive activities and war in different form against their very nations! This is a the common phenomenon in many nations. Iraq and Afghanistan wars are typical examples! Lack of knowledge of Islam, Islamic history and track record of Muslims since Islam’s birth haveled to wrong assumptions. Wrong assumptions and political compulsions and short range goals, have led to Frankenstein actions such as permitting a large number of Muslims from trouble spots such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and some more legally and illegally. However, there are a huge number of Muslims, who are exceptions to the above.
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
10 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
Unfortunately, they don’t oppose strongly Islamic jihadi fanatics and terrorists. They shouldoppose the mullahs preaching and provoking extremism among Muslims. Let these mullahs, some Islamic scholars and provocateurs of Islamic extremism follow what they preach! Oppose and expose them wherever you can! Or else, these moderate and sane sections of Muslims are also going to be hurt very badly in different forms against the battle with non-Muslims. For non-Muslims and exceptional Muslims, to face the long drawn battle with some diehard Islamic fanatics, the laws and judicial systems need immediate fine-tuning and overhaul in some nations. Or else the battle is going to be very tough, long drawn and costly. Regards,Posted by Krishna R. Kumar on July 27, 2007 7:22 AM
Report this comment
Because they are not British. After they have served thier sentances, chuck-em out.Posted by Adrian James on July 27, 2007 7:18 AM
Report this comment
It is very simple. British born men who turn against their countrymen do so because they donot see themselves as British. By their own definitions, they are not turning against theircountrymen. Perhaps such men once thought themselves British, and then started seeingthings which they strongly disliked. Hell hath no fury like a British-man scorned by his country. It is, however, a very poor question. I accuse Duncan Gardham of being incapable of looking atthe world from another's point of view. This concept of Britishness, or Nationhood, is a veryEuropean / Western-Liberal-Democracy idea. Mr Gardham, please go an immerse yourself inthe culture of a non-Western country and then ask yourself why your question is so pointless.A lot of people in the world define themselves according to their family and then their tribe.There are probably more people who define themselves this way, rather then by such an ethereal concept as nationhood.Posted by NickT, Aldershot on July 27, 2007 7:13 AM
Report this comment
You fail to teach your heroic history. You have contempt for your own society and its fine institutions. Your sailors cry when their ipods are confiscated. You speak of your society as " post Christian" when it is,in reality,pre Islamic. You fail to see that for these young people their place of birth is mere coincidence rather than a matter of pride. As an Australian who loves the Britain of my youth I despair for you. Posted by
peter harkin
on July 27, 2007 7:10 AM
Report this comment
These prople are not Britons,they are Muslim fanatics who hate western style democracy.This is what you get if you invite vipers into your home,they will bite you.Posted by NOAHS KAYAK on July 27, 2007 7:05 AM
Report this comment
Being British is more than just holding a British passport !Posted by mike on July 27, 2007 7:01 AM
Report this comment
These are not 'countrymen'. There is absolutely nothing that places these people in the group. Look at them! Do journalists live in some parallel universe that appears in this universe through the media? Is it some kind of quantum effect? Posted by Mark Derek on July 27, 2007 6:53 AM
Report this comment
Whatever are these dimwits doing idling away in higher education anyway. Get them outdigging drainage ditches. This country really must end the idiotic idea of inclusion without merit and end it now.Posted by wayne on July 27, 2007 6:49 AM
Report this comment
How much more evidence does this Govenment need? STOP LETTING THESE PEOPLE IN. As a Govenment you have a right to protect us and our young soldiers who are killed every day,Halt immigration today.Posted by Mr Barnett on July 27, 2007 6:45 AM
Report this comment
Post a comment
Please remember that the submission of any material to telegraph.co.uk is governed by our
Terms and Conditions
(clause 5 in particular) and by submitting material you confirm your
agreement to these Terms and Conditions.
British students jailed for terrorism plans - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/27/nter...
11 of 11 7/29/2007 1:33 AM
Your name:
*
Your email address:
*
(We won't publish this.)
Your site's URL: (If you have one.)
Post your comment
Please click the post button only once - your comment will not be published immediately.
*
= Required information
BUSINESS
Red ThursdayOn Thursday shares had their biggesttumble since 2003.
TRAVEL
Heaven and hellGeraldine Jamesrecounts her best and worst holidays.
EDINBURGH 2007
100 things to doThe must-see eventsat this year's Edinburgh Festival.
FOOD AND DRINK
Escape to the MedRick Stein sharessummer recipes from his new book.
You are here: Telegraph > News > Uk News
About us | Contact us | Forgotten your password? | Advertising | Press office | Promotions | Archive | Today's news
© Copyright of Telegraph Media Group Limited 2007. | Terms & Conditions of reading. | Commercial information. | Privacy and Cookie Policy.
Ads by Google
Coffee Exposed
A shocking secret coffee co's don't want you to know
www.coffeefool.com
Serious NWO Discussions
Visit AboveTopSecret.com for astute New World Order speculation
www.AboveTopSecret.com